Totally agree with what Destinie said too--even if it is basic information, sometimes it makes a huge difference coming from a personal perspective, and not a factual-wiki perspective! Lots of times wiki pages are edited by many different voices, which in it's own right is kind of fascinating because so many people work on it to fact-check and whatnot, but a shrine comes from one voice. In that sense, it can be it's own experience. :)
I think Dubi's approach is also really fascinating and fun way to think about approaching a series shrine. Just write about what interests you and don't be afraid to tackle it in parts! I think something else interesting about shrining is that we always strive to "finish" something, when I think it can actually be fun as a visitor to see it as a work in progress. Before I used to have really extensive update pages on my shrines, but I really don't do it anymore because oftentimes I consider them "done" when I put them out there. I think because they have the possibility of being massive, series shrines can really benefit from a long WIP if that's how you want to approach it too!
Series fansites
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Re: Series fansites
Larissa: Yeah, that was like... 2005? 2006? something like that? Now I feel really bad because I remember precisely how that site you had looked like and the pages and stuff and even the url, but I can't recall the name itself. Ah, the times of huge fansites about everything that crossed your mind, with obligatory RANDOM!! pages about injokes and stuff. What a different place is the Internet now.
Aku: I guess this also touches another question - do people prefer to see a fully complete, will never be touched again sort of shrine or something more evolving? I was thinking, from the author's perspective of course we know when something isn't really finished and we know what we want the full thing to be, so we are aware of a number of problems that might not even be visible at all from the perspective of a reader.
Aku: I guess this also touches another question - do people prefer to see a fully complete, will never be touched again sort of shrine or something more evolving? I was thinking, from the author's perspective of course we know when something isn't really finished and we know what we want the full thing to be, so we are aware of a number of problems that might not even be visible at all from the perspective of a reader.
Re: Series fansites
Aku: That's how I feel about my shrines, too. These days I won't upload them unless I have all the essays done, and I will update them with various tweaks, links, etc. But Dubs brings up a good point of what the visitors want to see. I feel like series fansites people expect them to have frequent updates. But I also feel that shrines and those large fansites are in two different realms. Shrines tend to be updated on an 'as needed' basis IMO.
Re: Series fansites
As a visitor, I love visiting sites that will get updates! As a webmaster, it's hard to run multiple sites that aren't "complete" in my head and require updates. My Tidus site is the only one right now getting regular updates, and I'm able to devote the time to it and have fun with it because all of my other sites are in good shape. It's fun having a site that has work left to be done on it because I enjoy working on it. I think it's just important to realize that a site like that will take up a lot of your time and keep you away from your other sites.dubiousdisc wrote:Aku: I guess this also touches another question - do people prefer to see a fully complete, will never be touched again sort of shrine or something more evolving? I was thinking, from the author's perspective of course we know when something isn't really finished and we know what we want the full thing to be, so we are aware of a number of problems that might not even be visible at all from the perspective of a reader.
Re: Series fansites
I'd honestly really love to see some shrines approach a more evolutionary phase! I think like Destinie mentioned, I often feel like I can't upload shrines unless I have all my writing done to get across my main points/thesis/whatever, but maybe shrines could have a higher return rate if they were presented as evolving and growing over time. I think all of us do tweak/update/add pages to existing shrines, but I also feel that a lot of them become static. I think there is charm in that, because it is a carefully crafted and beautiful piece of work. Like Todd mentioned, sites like that are updated often are a lot of time/upkeep, but it's really upon us to decide which projects become a "labor of love".dubiousdisc wrote:Aku: I guess this also touches another question - do people prefer to see a fully complete, will never be touched again sort of shrine or something more evolving? I was thinking, from the author's perspective of course we know when something isn't really finished and we know what we want the full thing to be, so we are aware of a number of problems that might not even be visible at all from the perspective of a reader.
But I think you also bring up a great point about the difference between our expectations vs. reader expectations, and probably speaks more to user experience than it does anything else. A difference of greeting your users with the idea that the page is completed or that it's a constantly evolving project. To Todd's point, I think that Poltergeist sets itself up for return visitors because he features updates on the first page I see. I can tell from this it's a WIP, and that if I come back at a later date he might have added something new.
Todd is actually a really great example of creating an experience for his users, because I also think it's interesting how he presents his projects on Nightbringer. (http://nightbringer.net/sites/) His Tidus shrine is clearly the "flagship" shrine of Nightbringer and something that is updated and worked on regularly, while other shrines are not nearly as pronounced on his network. I think it's really neat how he's chosen to dedicate himself to that shrine and work on it as a continuing project, while showcasing other works in a sort of different, "one shot" kind of light. I'd say it's a very similar approach for your Quake III collective Dubi, or a lot of us here who are kinda moving into that realm of shrining a lot in one category!
Re: Series fansites
LMFAO ironically it had "shinkirou" in the name so years later when i came across Aku's shinkirou.net I did the biggest double take of all time. But yeah, things were so different back then, it's weird to think about. (I remember your site too!)dubiousdisc wrote:Larissa: Yeah, that was like... 2005? 2006? something like that? Now I feel really bad because I remember precisely how that site you had looked like and the pages and stuff and even the url, but I can't recall the name itself. Ah, the times of huge fansites about everything that crossed your mind, with obligatory RANDOM!! pages about injokes and stuff. What a different place is the Internet now.
Aku: I guess this also touches another question - do people prefer to see a fully complete, will never be touched again sort of shrine or something more evolving? I was thinking, from the author's perspective of course we know when something isn't really finished and we know what we want the full thing to be, so we are aware of a number of problems that might not even be visible at all from the perspective of a reader.
also (am too lazy to quote again) I agree there's definitely a big difference between our expectations as site-makers and those of our visitors. I know it's really hard for me to get in the visitor's head after a while if I get into a site-making funk. I know from personal experience that I'm simply not very good at keeping a site up to date over time, so I like just putting a site up and making minor tweaks over long periods of time, but it's certainly less interesting for the visitor. Still -- to the point of the topic -- I think series fansites lend themselves to a "continually updated" state, even if they're completed series, simply because there's a lot more to talk about than there is with just one character/relationship/etc.
tonight fate is the ♚
Re: Series fansites
@Larissa if you are interested in what people want to see, it might be beneficial (and fun) to add things like polls or chatboxes on the site so you can engage people.
I find series fansites are easier to keep up to date if it's the ONLY site that you run and you're really dedicated to it. If you have a ton of other sites to maintain it gets kind of messy. |D;
I find series fansites are easier to keep up to date if it's the ONLY site that you run and you're really dedicated to it. If you have a ton of other sites to maintain it gets kind of messy. |D;
Re: Series fansites
Aw, thanks, Aku! That makes me super happy to hear, because that's exactly how I wanted visitors to see my sites.Aku wrote:Todd is actually a really great example of creating an experience for his users, because I also think it's interesting how he presents his projects on Nightbringer. (http://nightbringer.net/sites/) His Tidus shrine is clearly the "flagship" shrine of Nightbringer and something that is updated and worked on regularly, while other shrines are not nearly as pronounced on his network. I think it's really neat how he's chosen to dedicate himself to that shrine and work on it as a continuing project, while showcasing other works in a sort of different, "one shot" kind of light. I'd say it's a very similar approach for your Quake III collective Dubi, or a lot of us here who are kinda moving into that realm of shrining a lot in one category!
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Re: Series fansites
Personally, I look for fan made content in fansites: fanfictions, fanarts, meta, theories, analysis... From my point of view, wikias and fansites don't have the same "life objective": a wikia is for gathering all the canon information and organize it, while a fansite is for adding your personal interpretation to the canon and showcase one's own work. Of course, Devil Child, Nyx's Lounge and Grab Bag were built in another internet era, but that's the principle they were built upon. Maybe I'm old :P
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Come the Sun, to Tarnish in the Sky
Vow that we shall Tear the Light - Dark seizes the Throne
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Re: Series fansites
OHHH OKAY NOW I REMEMBER THE NAME HAHALarissa wrote:LMFAO ironically it had "shinkirou" in the name so years later when i came across Aku's shinkirou.net I did the biggest double take of all time. But yeah, things were so different back then, it's weird to think about. (I remember your site too!)
and even the way the site name was written
about three million years ago...
Seconding Destinie, polls aren't a bad idea for a big site if you want to know what has priority according to users.
And aahh I just went off topic didn't I, good thing Chibi made the other thread 8)