Fanlistings: Love or Hate?

Discuss anything concerning websites that doesn't fit anywhere else.
Forum rules
General Site Discussion is for website discussion that doesn't seem to fit under any of the other forums in this category. Shrine Discussions covers discussions about shrine content, Graphics and Coding covers anything visual and code-related of site-making.
User avatar
FandomSavant
Posts: 210
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2016 3:52 pm
Location: California, USA
Contact:

Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:19 am

wolfrun wrote:
FandomSavant wrote:My short answer: I love what they started out as, I hate what they've become.

By that, I mean, they used to be run by people actually dedicated to the subject. Now, there are some people running the "high profile" or "popular" topics just to have them. It's like a status thing. You can tell by things they say (or don't say) that they're a collector who craves the "you're approved!" email.
Very good point! It did feel very much like a race to get the most popular topics. I've been a bit out of the loop for quite a few years now but if it's become even more of a status thing, that makes me feel kinda sad. :< Definitely has gone far away from what the intent was.

I think I also sort of disliked how the "official" fanlistings have taken it upon themselves to say that only the "officially approved" fanlistings are legit ones. Who's to say there can't be more than one fanlisting for the same topic? I guess it's definitely a logistics thing when you're dealing with a site like tafl.org but if there was less emphasis on being the only one "allowed" to have one, maybe it wouldn't be so much of a status thing. :)


Thankfully, though, the "collector" or "status" people are the minority.

Hi! I'm Patricia.

FandomSavant.com - home of my stuff
Twitter: @FandomSavant

User avatar
Lethe
Posts: 1366
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:20 pm
Contact:

Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:54 pm

Hey, everyone! Just chiming in with a cautious reminder in light of the direction of this discussion; this doesn't concern any current posts.

We love old topics being revisited, especially to see how perceptions may have changed, and we love discussions about how things used to be as well as current trends. Try to keep it at that though, and do not point fingers or single out individuals to rant about, especially if they're identifiable based on your remarks (even if you don't mention them by name).

You're welcome to vent your frustrations, but let's avoid ranting about individuals from other communities since we're trying to be inclusive at Amassment! Point out the negative things, focus on how to make things better and celebrate creative sites, and hopefully others will follow suit. <3

---

The listing that was mentioned is Alterlistings, by the way. :O
Both despair and ecstasy are part of the elements that compose a person.

User avatar
Lethe
Posts: 1366
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:20 pm
Contact:

Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:12 am

I know you are, and as said, talking about part experiences is fine!
Both despair and ecstasy are part of the elements that compose a person.

User avatar
Mikari
Posts: 3249
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:30 pm
Location: Coruscant
Contact:

Sat Mar 26, 2016 1:06 am

I'll check out the Alterlistings later too and join a bunch. I've been looking around different sections whenever I have some free time on the PC/laptop and don't feel like drawing or just finished a picture. Thanks for sharing the link!

User avatar
isavarg
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:04 am
Contact:

Tue Apr 12, 2016 6:19 am

Fanlistings were alright for interaction in the early days when people would make fan forums, were allowed to share with others their online projects and people supported people that way. (The forum itself though, would have to centre around a specific genre or fandom for it work.) Some forums don't allow that and most of the ones which did haven't been active for years, as far as I can see. I liked the interaction and support you'd get from those forums.

I run a few fanlistings and if I run one for a character or if it's related to a specific fandom, I always try to add extra things to it, such as a gallery, or avatars, sometimes, even a bit of information about the subject if I can.

I think what the problem is in regards to them being incomplete shrines is that people move on to creating other fanlistings after they've created one and never go back to it unless it's for adding new members, etc. (I am guilty of that to some extent, which is why I don't allow myself to create another fanlisting!)

One of the things I don't like is when a specific person owns a lot of fanlistings in a certain fandom because there's nothing for other fans to take on when they want to make a fanlisting, so I limit the number that I have to keep things open for other people. I'd much rather see fanlistings for a certain fandom be spread among a number of different people rather than all being owned by one.

I also don't like it when people complain that a layout is similar to what someone else has done. Some people even go so far as to complain about the html and css tags that people use. (And is this kind of like a book publishing company complaining that another book publishing company is publishing its material in a similar size paperback or hardback.) Perhaps if people made fewer fanlistings and concentrated more on making content for them, the layout would matter less.

This I find is an unfriendly attitude to take and it's no longer a hobby to find friends, as it should be, and more like you're competing against other people. But people's behaviour has the capacity to ruin anything that's good.

Putting aside elitism and people's behaviour, one of the main frustrations for me is when fanlistings move or close because I can't keep up with it.

User avatar
catnox
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 12:25 pm
Contact:

Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:52 pm

This is my perspective as a fairly new member to both shrines and listings. I started making listings before I discovered shrines and I've really enjoyed it as a hobby.

I like to read people's analyses and opinions and why they love xyz so much and shrines/listings are a great way to express that. I am not personally comfortable providing so much of my own personal thoughts and opinions and usually only include the basics about a subject. It's just awkward for me to try to force that kind of content. To me, the point of any fan endeavor, besides joining a larger community of fans and making friends, is expressing yourself. Most of us are fans of something because it reflects something of ourselves or it resonates in some way and being able to design a layout is how I express that kind of enthusiasm or appreciation. A lot of you are awesome at utilizing writing (or both design and writing!!) for that but not everybody is the same. I think that the implication that less content = less of a fan is a little unfair. I know that nobody said this in this thread, but that's the kind of impression I get.

However, I think fanlistings are more than just sharing your love of a subject. I mean, they are called fanlistings because they list fans. I was just talking to Megan about how immediately after I finish a game or show or whatever, I'll go on TFL and look at the already made fanlisting for the subject. It's not just that I'm making something that resonates with me, but I'm joining somebody else in their appreciation. To just be a member on their listing is just fine with me. The way I see it is the point of shrines is to express your appreciation for a subject, and the point of fanlistings is to acknowledge other people as fellow fans.

Obviously shrines are not just for ourselves, but listings provide the capability to actually JOIN and be listed as a fan.

I'm not sure how to avoid the status or exclusivity thing by there being only one owner for a fanlisting. Since the point is to gather fans in one place, is there an alternative? There can be as many shrines for a subject as we want and nobody can stop you from making an un-approved listing, but I think there being one "official" listing makes sense. Competition can stem from this, but every community will have competition between its members.

User avatar
Lethe
Posts: 1366
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:20 pm
Contact:

Wed Apr 13, 2016 4:34 am

Chiming in as someone who doesn't make fanlistings, but has loved visiting them for over a decade.

I think it's important to keep in mind that fanlistings and shrines are different things - something that came up repeatedly in the 2014 posts in this topic when it was originally made. Amassment's newly-introduced fanlisting forum only promotes fanlistings that have "a little more", but that's because Amassment is a shrining community, and this forum is an attempt to push fanlistings and shrines a bit closer, while opening itself to those who may be intimidated by shrines. And as much as I love seeing "a little more" on fanlistings as a visitor, that isn't a fanlisting's defining trait; I think looking at fanlistings as lesser, light-weight or incomplete shrines would be doing them a disservice. (I actually love how catnox put it: A fanlisting is about sharing. I know I love it when I can join a fanlisting and grab a code to display on my own site, especially when it's a subject that I've believed to be long dead.)

A fanlisting's content is not the same as a shrine's content. From the perspective of an outsider, I think fanlistings are about maintaining a dedicated list or creating a pretty layout to a subject you like, or both. I visited this fanlisting yesterday, for example, and there's no "content", just a paragraph of thanks for having received the fanlisting through adoption along with a few words of love for the subject. But it made me, a fan, very happy to see that. Another fanlisting I visited yesterday had a barebones layout, but it has been up for over ten years, and it still lists my old internet handle from before 2005 in the fan list... That's incredible dedication, and it's touching.

Then, there are all kinds of stunning layouts out there, which makes me very nostalgic, because I assume that most people who are still creating fanlistings are people who got into making websites over ten years ago, just like me. And their skills have evolved so much that I can see their dedication in their layouts, while I get to enjoy a subject's visuals in a new way. But that's not the only thing - there are plenty of layouts that look like the kind that you'd see around ~2003, and that's just as lovely: It means that these people have stuck around so long, keeping their love for a subject alive through a dedicated list.

So no, I don't think fanlistings as a whole should or need to focus on shrine-like content or extras more to establish themselves, because what they already have is plenty. And, as others have already said in this topic, sometimes you just don't have anything to say on a subject, but want to make pretty graphics anyway (I do that on Tumblr, for example), or perhaps you don't enjoy or don't have the skillset to sit down and make a shrine - and there should be no pressure to. I don't ask someone who makes fanart to write me fanfic or ask someone who hosts a fan event to set up a forum too, for example. I don't ask a fellow fan to give me more than they're already giving, perhaps to prove that they're more dedicated than "that".

As for fanlisting owners having a lot of fanlistings in a certain fandom... I get what isavarg is saying; it's nice to see many different people own fanlistings for those. But how do you, as a fanlisting creator, know - in advance! - how popular a fandom is within the fanlisting community, especially with not that many people making sites anymore and preferring, say, social media? What if certain subjects just wouldn't get any fanlistings for them for however long if it weren't for you applying for them? I went on fanlisting joining spree a while ago, and updated all my fanlistings yesterday. It surprised me to see that many extremely popular fandoms in the present (when you look at social media and other outlets) barely have any fanlistings to them, or not as many as you'd expect. I'm also into a lot of obscure and old things. In both categories, it pleasantly surprised me that one or two people had a lot of fanlistings to the respective fandom - that they are just that dedicated to a fandom to make several sites for it - and that made me incredibly happy.

As someone who doesn't make fanlistings, but has heard about the modalities behind them, isn't there also a distinction to be made between applying for fanlistings on your own, and applying for fanlistings up for adoption, or that have recently been removed from the network? In that case, it'd be up to the staffers handling the requests to "distribute" fanlistings, so to speak.

Lastly, even if the environment within the fanlisting community happens to be bad (I can't judge, I'm not in it) due to the competitive nature, I think as individuals, you can still choose part of the company you keep, and try to see the hobby from a positive side? Fanlistings may no longer be a place where fans who get listed find fellow fans (perhaps they never were? I have no idea), but I think friendships can still be made that way: between the fanlisting owner and those who get listed, and among fanlisting owners due to the common hobby. I've interacted with fanlisting owners over the years, as a visitor, and the intersection between online TCGs, fanlistings and shrines has played a big part in keeping my love for website-making and fandoms alive over the years (some people are into more than one of these communities). These days, it always surprises me when I chat someone up and they tell me that they've visited one of my shrines since I rejoined the community last year, and they're surprised too, when I meet them in oTCGs and start talking about their fanlistings.

In the end, I think that's what Amassment is also trying to do: providing a platform where you get support and encouragement for your fanlistings, and meet fellow fans while introducing new people to the subject. Discussion topics in this forum and the What fanlisting(s) are you currently working on? topic are open to all kinds of fanlistings. And even though plugs demand "a little more", Amassment lets you decide on your own what that "little more" is - without necessarily following typical shrine content.
Both despair and ecstasy are part of the elements that compose a person.

User avatar
Amber
Posts: 66
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:43 am
Location: Texas
Contact:

Fri Apr 15, 2016 9:42 pm

Lethe wrote:Chiming in as someone who doesn't make fanlistings, but has loved visiting them for over a decade.

I think it's important to keep in mind that fanlistings and shrines are different things - something that came up repeatedly in the 2014 posts in this topic when it was originally made. Amassment's newly-introduced fanlisting forum only promotes fanlistings that have "a little more", but that's because Amassment is a shrining community, and this forum is an attempt to push fanlistings and shrines a bit closer, while opening itself to those who may be intimidated by shrines. And as much as I love seeing "a little more" on fanlistings as a visitor, that isn't a fanlisting's defining trait; I think looking at fanlistings as lesser, light-weight or incomplete shrines would be doing them a disservice. (I actually love how catnox put it: A fanlisting is about sharing. I know I love it when I can join a fanlisting and grab a code to display on my own site, especially when it's a subject that I've believed to be long dead.)

A fanlisting's content is not the same as a shrine's content. From the perspective of an outsider, I think fanlistings are about maintaining a dedicated list or creating a pretty layout to a subject you like, or both. I visited this fanlisting yesterday, for example, and there's no "content", just a paragraph of thanks for having received the fanlisting through adoption along with a few words of love for the subject. But it made me, a fan, very happy to see that. Another fanlisting I visited yesterday had a barebones layout, but it has been up for over ten years, and it still lists my old internet handle from before 2005 in the fan list... That's incredible dedication, and it's touching.

Then, there are all kinds of stunning layouts out there, which makes me very nostalgic, because I assume that most people who are still creating fanlistings are people who got into making websites over ten years ago, just like me. And their skills have evolved so much that I can see their dedication in their layouts, while I get to enjoy a subject's visuals in a new way. But that's not the only thing - there are plenty of layouts that look like the kind that you'd see around ~2003, and that's just as lovely: It means that these people have stuck around so long, keeping their love for a subject alive through a dedicated list.

So no, I don't think fanlistings as a whole should or need to focus on shrine-like content or extras more to establish themselves, because what they already have is plenty. And, as others have already said in this topic, sometimes you just don't have anything to say on a subject, but want to make pretty graphics anyway (I do that on Tumblr, for example), or perhaps you don't enjoy or don't have the skillset to sit down and make a shrine - and there should be no pressure to. I don't ask someone who makes fanart to write me fanfic or ask someone who hosts a fan event to set up a forum too, for example. I don't ask a fellow fan to give me more than they're already giving, perhaps to prove that they're more dedicated than "that".

As for fanlisting owners having a lot of fanlistings in a certain fandom... I get what isavarg is saying; it's nice to see many different people own fanlistings for those. But how do you, as a fanlisting creator, know - in advance! - how popular a fandom is within the fanlisting community, especially with not that many people making sites anymore and preferring, say, social media? What if certain subjects just wouldn't get any fanlistings for them for however long if it weren't for you applying for them? I went on fanlisting joining spree a while ago, and updated all my fanlistings yesterday. It surprised me to see that many extremely popular fandoms in the present (when you look at social media and other outlets) barely have any fanlistings to them, or not as many as you'd expect. I'm also into a lot of obscure and old things. In both categories, it pleasantly surprised me that one or two people had a lot of fanlistings to the respective fandom - that they are just that dedicated to a fandom to make several sites for it - and that made me incredibly happy.

As someone who doesn't make fanlistings, but has heard about the modalities behind them, isn't there also a distinction to be made between applying for fanlistings on your own, and applying for fanlistings up for adoption, or that have recently been removed from the network? In that case, it'd be up to the staffers handling the requests to "distribute" fanlistings, so to speak.

Lastly, even if the environment within the fanlisting community happens to be bad (I can't judge, I'm not in it) due to the competitive nature, I think as individuals, you can still choose part of the company you keep, and try to see the hobby from a positive side? Fanlistings may no longer be a place where fans who get listed find fellow fans (perhaps they never were? I have no idea), but I think friendships can still be made that way: between the fanlisting owner and those who get listed, and among fanlisting owners due to the common hobby. I've interacted with fanlisting owners over the years, as a visitor, and the intersection between online TCGs, fanlistings and shrines has played a big part in keeping my love for website-making and fandoms alive over the years (some people are into more than one of these communities). These days, it always surprises me when I chat someone up and they tell me that they've visited one of my shrines since I rejoined the community last year, and they're surprised too, when I meet them in oTCGs and start talking about their fanlistings.

In the end, I think that's what Amassment is also trying to do: providing a platform where you get support and encouragement for your fanlistings, and meet fellow fans while introducing new people to the subject. Discussion topics in this forum and the What fanlisting(s) are you currently working on? topic are open to all kinds of fanlistings. And even though plugs demand "a little more", Amassment lets you decide on your own what that "little more" is - without necessarily following typical shrine content.
This post shares my honest opinion. Thank you!

Post Reply
  • Information
  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest