Beta Checks

Talk with others about anything shrine-related, be it presentation, content or something else.
Lethe
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Beta Checks

Post by Lethe »

Image
The following is a discussion topic from April 2009! You might also be interested in paying the Shrine Betas and Amassment Exchange boards a visit if you haven't yet, especially to make use of topics such as Calls for Beta Reading or our lovely Robin's Beta Services. :D

When making shrines, do you have anyone look over the content for you before revealing your work to the public? Do you send layout previews to others for input and testing?

After a shrine has been uploaded and plugged, how comfortable are you with others pointing out errors of any kind, including readability issues in your design? Do you feel comfortable leaving others feedback of that kind?
Both despair and ecstasy are part of the elements that compose a person.
Anise
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Re: Beta Checks

Post by Anise »

When making shrines, do you have anyone look over the content for you before revealing your work to the public? Do you send layout previews to others for input and testing? Not usually. I probably should because I'm certain there are spelling mistakes if nothing else but I never really had anyone I felt I should share it with first or wanted to get a lot of early feedback from.

After a shrine has been uploaded and plugged, how comfortable are you with others pointing out errors of any kind, including readability issues in your design? Do you feel comfortable leaving others feedback of that kind?Yes, I mean I always feel silly when it's something super obvious but I want the shrine to look/be its best so I appreciate the feedback.

When it comes to providing feedback to others I'm more nervous because I'm not sure how people will respond and I don't want anyone to take it the wrong way.
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Robin
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Re: Beta Checks

Post by Robin »

When making shrines, do you have anyone look over the content for you before revealing your work to the public?
I am usually my own beta reader--I will write content and allow it to "sit" undisturbed for at least a night's sleep before going back to it. When I do this, I catch all sorts of clumsy phrasing, weird word choices, and just plain dumb errors I glossed over the night before. I generally don't like to reveal anything much less than what I consider perfectly polished content on a shrine (though I'm apparently getting over that with my Eighth Doctor shrine LMAO)

Do you send layout previews to others for input and testing?
I do this pretty regularly, especially if I'm really worried about visibility/readabilty, or if I'm super stuck on how to make this layout look decent. I would rather ask for layout help than content help, because I am soooo much a writer first and design is sooooo hard for me sometimes.

After a shrine has been uploaded and plugged, how comfortable are you with others pointing out errors of any kind, including readability issues in your design?
I'm good with it; I admit it makes me feel ashamed of myself at first for not catching it/not thinking about it, but I'd rather it be corrected right away than for an error to go uncorrected for a long time.

Do you feel comfortable leaving others feedback of that kind?
I like to leave thorough yet encouraging feedback about readability/layout bugs/grammar and spelling errors, etc. because I definitely appreciate that type of assist on my sites. :)
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dubiousdisc
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Re: Beta Checks

Post by dubiousdisc »

When making shrines, do you have anyone look over the content for you before revealing your work to the public? Do you send layout previews to others for input and testing?
Absolutely, I pretty much don't post anything to the internet that hasn't been already checked by a second pair of eyes. I send anything in progress to Denise, but often to other people too. Especially if I'm in any way unsure even after her check, then I send it to as many people as I can. They always have different sorts of input that I could have never thought of myself.

After a shrine has been uploaded and plugged, how comfortable are you with others pointing out errors of any kind, including readability issues in your design?
PLEASE TELL ME I BEG YOU I WILL (LONG BEEPING SOUND) FOR FEEDBACK

Do you feel comfortable leaving others feedback of that kind?
That a bit less...I hope it doesn't come off bad...
Destinie
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Re: Beta Checks

Post by Destinie »

I would love to have more people look over my work but I get nervous. I sometimes ask people in the forums or on twitter to look stuff over for me. I write all my shrines in googleDocs so if anyone also uses that and wants to read my stuff, I'm more than happy to share.

I thrive on critiques so I want as much feedback as I can get on my writing. I'm always striving to make it better. I feel like a lot of my writing is very "stream of consciousness" and I want to improve on that.
Aku
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Re: Beta Checks

Post by Aku »

When Kula and I worked on our Ranka/Alto shrines, we both read one another's shrines before putting them online! (I believe we also frequently read each other's essays as we got them done because we worked on the shrines online... or at least, I know I read hers while she was working on it. XD) That being said, I've never worked on a shrine publicly up until CZ! Personally, I prefer it be done between me and another person privately. (Usually pretty comfortable letting friends read over things for me!) Part of the reason it was so easy for me to let Kula read my Ranka shrine is because she was also personally involved in the project (and familiar with Macross Frontier/Ranka/my ideas). It's nice to have someone who knows your subject, like in the case of Kula, who was also able to point out any mistakes I made in terms of the lore of Macross itself, not just writing.

Layouts I am definitely way more open to feedback on, and I think that's just a matter of me being more comfortable in the design realm than writing. I usually ask friends about layouts before I plug anything and let them find my mistakes haha. So yeah! I guess nothing I put online is ever untouched by another's eyes, I usually do let friends look over stuff before I put it anywhere.

I'm definitely comfortable with others leaving feedback afterwards, and I'd probably specifically ask for it if it was something I was looking for! That being said, in terms of leaving others critique, I would make sure I had the "go ahead" to do so first and wait until I was prompted for that. Not everyone is as receptive to critique as others and I think that's totally fine. (After all, generally when you finish a 24324234 page shrine you just wanna celebrate it!)
Megan A
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Re: Beta Checks

Post by Megan A »

When making shrines, do you have anyone look over the content for you before revealing your work to the public?
Yes, there are a few people that I specifically go to for help with my writing. I'm really, really self-conscious about my writing and have trouble putting it out there for others to read. This helps me become more confident in my ideas and what I have written. I have also shared my shrines at all points of the shrining process with others, which has been a blast.

Do you send layout previews to others for input and testing?
I share layout previews with others a lot, and I really enjoy doing this because I've gotten a ton of help and suggestions regarding them. I also need to keep other resolutions in mind, which is something I forget a lot, so I always poke Lethe when I need to know if my layout is too large. :X

After a shrine has been uploaded and plugged, how comfortable are you with others pointing out errors of any kind, including readability issues in your design?
Very comfortable. I want my sites to be accessible, and I don't want the content to be difficult to read. I am still learning what works best so if there's ever an issue with what I am doing, I definitely would want to know. I'm a little less comfortable receiving feedback on my writing, but I still like hearing suggestions regarding things like sentence structure and grammar so that I can improve my writing. I want as much feedback as necessary though so that I can improve in the future.

Do you feel comfortable leaving others feedback of that kind?
I am less comfortable leaving feedback for others regarding specific issues mostly because I am afraid of how they would receive it. I would be fine if they specifically asked for feedback though.
Elysa
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Re: Beta Checks

Post by Elysa »

When making shrines, do you have anyone look over the content for you before revealing your work to the public?
I had a friend of mine read through the content for Momiji before I put it online, because it was my first shrine so I was extra nervous about how I worded things, any typos and errors, haha. However, I generally don't have anyone beta my content, I just put it online and try not to look back on it because, like Megan A, I'm very self-conscious about my writing.

Do you send layout previews to others for input and testing?
I've shared layout previews with others before but more because they were curious and less for input/testing purposes. I'm the kind of person that likes to keep things a surprise, so I feel that sharing things before it's online kind of "ruins" the experience, haha.

After a shrine has been uploaded and plugged, how comfortable are you with others pointing out errors of any kind, including readability issues in your design?
I'm definitely okay with people pointing out any typos or design problems. I only use one browser, so what looks good to me might not in another browser. Like Robin, I always feel a little embarrassed when there are typos, but I know I'm prone to overlook them after reading my own stuff for the millionth time, haha. Also I know that sometimes I phrase things a little... strangely, so I'd definitely like to know if anything's unclear!

Do you feel comfortable leaving others feedback of that kind?
I usually don't, unless people have specifically asked for it.
Lethe
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Re: Beta Checks

Post by Lethe »

omg @ the mention of my 1280x720 resolution ahahaha... I'm so sorry. :swt:

When making shrines, do you have anyone look over the content for you before revealing your work to the public?
I don't usually have anyone check my writing before plugging something. Part of it is confidence in my own meticulousness (I reread every page about ten times, separately and in combination with other pages, while creating the thing), part of it is because I'm not used to it... At school and university, I was usually the person who was asked to proofread and edit texts, not the other way around, so I never felt like I had anyone to turn to when it came to my own texts. Plus my shrines are so long that I don't want to subject anyone to them - others should be able to read at their own pace whenever they have time haha. (And I want to plug right away!!)

For some excerpts or pages though, I'd poke others if I have concerns about repetitiveness or difficulty (most notably in the case of technical aspects such as gameplay, but also in the case of long convoluted storylines). It's always nice to get input from different groups of people (very knowledgeable about the thing, being vaguely familiar, having zero clue).

Do you send layout previews to others for input and testing?
I have a bad habit of whining excessively when making layouts, so yes, most of my layouts in their various stages are shared with people while I work on them. It isn't uncommon for me to be at a complete loss at some point during the process, so I'd depend on input to proceed. It's also especially important to me that navigations and subnavigations aren't tedious and that the text is easy on the eyes; what's easy to me may not be easy to others, so feedback is important. Some people also don't hold back with suggesting design alterations for one reason or another, which is always neat, as it allows you to explore possibilties you wouldn't have thought of.

After a shrine has been uploaded and plugged, how comfortable are you with others pointing out errors of any kind, including readability issues in your design? Do you feel comfortable leaving others feedback of that kind?
To echo dubiousdisc: PLEASE TELL ME ABOUT EVERY SINGLE TYPO, WEIRD PHRASING, WRONG ENGLISH, MISSING COMMA, MISSING QUOTE OR PARENTHESIS. I absolutely don't mind getting an email or PM that says nothing but "yo you're missing a period here (p.s. I like your shrine 8D)".

As said above, I'm also very grateful when people point out difficulties in navigating or reading the site, or difficulty in understanding any given page. I think that's... some of the hardest feedback to give, because these elements may be so fundamental to a design or a page's structure that the creator would have to make very pervasive, demanding or time-consuming changes to improve on those fronts.

For the same reason, I usually don't bring up such concerns... even though I do think they're important, and know that constructive criticism regarding content can help us improve. I think it's also a matter of environment: I don't see many people explicitly ask for that kind of feedback (which is absolutely fine!), or see others offer that kind of feedback, so it seems like it might be inappropriate? I certainly wouldn't want any feelings to be hurt. I've pointed out some readability concerns or suggested slight colour changes to others in the past here though, and luckily, they didn't mind! (It's always a nice surprise, prefaced by a lot of trepidation. ;_;)

Still, I think it's important to keep in mind that
  • from the perspective of the visitor, even though you give design or content feedback like that, the creator is free to make changes or not, and that's entirely their right that you have to respect.
  • from the perspective of the creator, even though you receive design or content feedback, you aren't forced to make changes you're uncomfortable with - and also not right away! (Changing certain things such as fonts and colours after having let a layout rest for a while is muuuuuch easier.)
I usually point out typos and minor errors as I assume that people would prefer to know. If a shrine has many such errors, however, I don't unless I'm comfortable with the person, since, speaking from experience, not everyone likes being corrected.

Including a "feedback/criticism/suggestions is appreciated!" in a plug post definitely makes me much more comfortable to bring up any of this though, and I think the current Construction Zone event is also great in this regard.

(I hope this post doesn't rub anyone the wrong way! O_O I just wanted to express that I really, really appreciate feedback and suggestions, particularly the kind that people would be hesitant to bring up.)
Both despair and ecstasy are part of the elements that compose a person.
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